As you see it would be nice if there was a option where it would say just Emulator.
It would be nice if it were exact like Cemu but I get it that there are other emulators, new ones would maybe pop up, etc… so it would just complicate it more.
So yea, to repeat - just to add Emulator as a option would be perfect.
I appreciate that people will play games on emulators rather than the original hardware. However, part of the purpose of the database is to catalogue all releases of a game and the platforms they’re were released on. So while you might play a Wii U game via Cemu, the platform of that game is still Wii U, you’re just emulating the platform. From an accuracy standpoint adding emulators adds a layer to the database that’s misleading because none of the games were released for the emulator. It’s an interesting idea but I think it goes against the spirit of why we index platforms in the first place.
I just kinda imagine two different scenarios. One where Emulator is just as any other Pc game, played on the desk, maybe with high FPS. And second one where it’s hand held console played on the go, casually on the bed etc.
Still thanks for the answer, at least now i know why :DD.
Does it make sense for Grouvee’s database to fulfill that purpose though, @BMO ? In other words, is Grouvee really where people are coming for the definitive answer to the question “what platforms were these games originally developed/released on?” or is it where they come to answer the following.
- “What platforms could I play these games on?”
- “What platform(s) did I/others play these games on?”
I would also argue that it could add non-trivial information since, as far as I have seen, not all games can be emulated at any given time. So instead of adding an emulator option to all games when they are added to the database, it would be more useful to add it when requested, in the same vein of a game being released on a new platform. Maybe that’s asking for a logistical nuisance, but just my idea of how it could be handy.
Sorry if this is rehashing stuff that has already been discussed.
Part of the function of Grouvee is to allow people to catalogue the games they own, and on which platforms.
There’s also the argument that emulators are not platforms, they are emulated platforms. So if I play an emulated version of the SNES copy of Chrono Trigger on my PC, I’m still playing a SNES game. The platform is not the emulator I played it on or the hardware, because both of those are functionally “pretending” to be a SNES to run the rom. However if I play the Steam port of Chrono Trigger then the platform changes to PC. So what I maintain is that even though there are are different emulators, the games were not released for those emulators and you don’t own a copy that is emulator specific. Regardless of which emulator we use, we are still emulating a platform for which the game was officially released. So my take on it is if I own a SNES rom, the platform is SNES and not snes9x and so on.
Agreed, this makes sense to me. I’m not against tracking which emulators people use, but from a database standpoint I don’t think including emulators in with platforms is the way to go. They are two different things and conflating them doesn’t make sense to me.
I understand this and I agree with it, but with that in mind why do we have separate platform entries for the 3DS eShop or Playstation Network entries for the PS3, PSP, and Vita? Those aren’t separate consoles, they’re just a method of distribution. It would be like having “Steam” as a platform.
It’s because of how Giant Bomb handled it. My understanding was that they separated PS3 and PS3 PlayStation Network because the former were physical discs and the latter were digital only titles. Same for eShop only titles versus games you can buy on cart. Honestly I think that was a mistake. And we stopped using the PS Network tag because it really doesn’t make sense. I believe even Giant Bomb stopped making the distinction. So what we are left with is legacy data that should really be cleaned up so that all PS3 games are tagged PS3 and not fragmented between PS3 and PS Network. Same applies to Nintendo titles. It’s something @peter has discussed in the past.
Gotcha. Speaking as a total amateur with no experience on a project like this, it seems like it should be pretty simple to do programmatically. Pull up all entries with Playstation Network (PS3) as a platform, add the PS3 platform to any that don’t already have it, then remove the Playstation Network (PS3) from all of them before removing it as an available platform altogether.
Regardless, I’m against adding “emulator” as a platform. For one, “Emulator” is a very nebulous term with FAR too many emulators, revisions, and even just settings options that can affect performance to be useful information without detail provided by the user anyways. If you want to make it clear for purposes of organizing your collection, that’s what custom shelves are for. If you want to make it clear in your reviews or statuses, that’s already an option.
OK, I think I’m coming around to what people are saying. The platform is acting as part of specifying the version of the software, while an emulator is the hardware the software is run on. Like how Mega Man Legends has a version that was developed for the original PS1 but I can play it on a PS2.
Almost makes me want a “played on” column, but that feels like it’s asking for trouble.
(and it’s a tidier way to keep track of Steam/GOG/etc. purchases than asking users to generate unique shelves).
Making it messier for all users to cater to some when there’s already an option available doesn’t seem “tidier”. There will always be more filters/divisions that people want, I’d rather keep the game pages/database less cluttered/more friendly to browse and give users the options to organize their personal collections as they like. Seems like the best compromise to me. I have a shelf for the titles I own digitally exactly for this purpose.
Maybe the best solution is to simply allow users the option to add custom platform fields and custom release information relevant primarily to their specific usecases?
HOO BOY that sounds like a messy nightmare. Even on consoles, a PS4 game alone could have 8 platform options that come to mind. Include upgrading your PS4 hard drive to an SSD and that adds 5 more options. Now imagine people adding a custom platform for each of their individual PC builds!
- base PS4
- PS4 Slim
- PS4 Pro without boost mode on
- PS4 Pro with boost mode on (favor resolution)
- PS4 Pro with boost mode on (favor framerate)
- PS5 with boost mode on default
- PS5 with boost mode on favoring performance
- PS5 with boost mode on favoring resolution
The idea is that only they and people visiting their profile could see their custom platforms.
This confuses me even more. If the changes you’re suggesting would only be visible on a user’s profile, then the pre-existing option of shelves is the obvious answer. They’re already there and very easy to make.
So my suggestion was more about the fact that you can make shelves for any system, real or otherwise. For example, I just made a shelf for “The GameSphere” and added a game to it. You could make a shelf called “Emulator” and add games from any system to it. You could even get more granular and make shelves for each system’s emulator you like or even name them after the specific emulator used. I don’t think I’m understanding how what you’re suggesting is all that different from this existing ability to make custom shelves.
I get what you mean now. I personally don’t see that extra required click as enough reason to change things as you suggested, but I also admit I don’t use Grouvee in the same way. I use it to review what I’ve played and see what other people think of what they happen to be playing, not decide what to play next. Thank you for taking the time to explain your perspective! I was afraid I was coming off as dismissive and that was not my intent.
yea it would be best to add Emulator tag to games that are requested, not all of them. Great point.
Some emulators can push game beyond original platform. And even if not it’s still totally different experience between emulated platform and original platform on which game is made. Repeating my first reply - i imagine diff scenarios with emulating where you can play it on 120+ Hz display, better resolution, keyboard and mouse, etc depending on the game and
I appreciate that emulators being new features to the table, but even if I emulate the Game Cube version of The Wind Waker at higher resolution and frame rate on a PC, it’s still the Game Cube release. The emulator doesn’t change the platform for which the game was released. It’s similar to back compatibility. If I own an Xbox 360 game but play it on my Series X with increased frame rate and/or higher resolution I’m not suddenly playing a Series X game. I’m still playing an Xbox 360 game.
While I agree that playing Wind Waker on an emulator with those enhancements is still playing a Gamecube game, I’d disagree that it’s the “same” game. I’m not an elitist or snob with that “if you play on emulator you haven’t played the REAL game” attitude, but when you get into changes like upscaling internally to 4k, upping frame rates, and/or reducing load times
those things can all significantly impact a person’s enjoyment/reception of a game. It’s a different experience and there have been games with less significant improvements sold as remasters. I guess I’d consider more of a different “experience” than a different game now that I try and put it into words.
I think the problem is that people are conflating game as experience with game as release. I’m not at all disputing the fact that the experience of an emulated game can be different. When I say Wind Waker is the same game I mean that it’s the same thing that was released for Game Cube, even if the emulator transforms the experience.
Rom and iso hacks may be a grey area because they are altered forms of the game, but they are still technically modified versions of the original release and in my mind still belong to the same platform as the pre hacked game.
I mostly agree with that. Playing a game on an emulator should be something you mention in your review or status if you think it’s affecting your experience, but it’s not a separate entry.
I disagree with ROM hacks necessarily being the same release as they can create an entirely new game. New graphics, aesthetic, dialogue, mechanics, etc. Pokemon Shiny Gold is a remake of Pokemon Gold using Pokemon Fire Red as the base game for the ROM hack. It’s definitely not “just playing a modified version of Fire Red”, it’s an entirely different game that basically just uses the Fire Red engine.
Pyronaut would be another good example. If you were to look at pictures or footage of that game you wouldn’t think “Well it’s still really just Castlevania 2.”