I guess it just feels like a whole lot is being asked here, in this case of Arab and Muslim Americans, or really any American who cares deeply about the situation, that if you don’t vote for the party that is happy with genociding Palestinians you are essentially doing an immoral act, because a non-vote is a vote for the other party that is happy with them being genocided even harder. To me that logic just falls apart at some point.
And I feel like any criticism directed at Arab and Muslim Americans in this case for not voting should be directed entirely at the Democratic party for having their pro-Zionist views. They are literally the ones who caused this effect and response. The Arabs and Muslims are the ones suffering and the ones who need our understanding and empathy, the Democrats deserve zero empathy and all the ire.
It’s not mutually exclusive. I do certainly blame the Democratic Party. But I also hope the single issue Palestine people who didn’t vote for Harris remember their selfish choice when immigrants are getting put into camps and the economy is spiraling into oblivion, because those things would not have happened under a Harris presidency.
Sorry, maybe I’m not understanding something here.
So people didn’t vote for the Democrats because they are pro-Zionist (I honestly don’t know what that means). Okay, fair enough.
However, in not voting for the Democrats, or any other party, they have actively let in a party that is going to undeniably worse for Gaza and the Palestines, regardless of what said party actually does (which, I’d argue to arm the other side or do absolutely nothing) but somehow that’s fine?
This logic makes absolutely no sense to me.
I guess the logic from a lot of the non-voters is that they don’t think that continuously voting for the lesser evil is making any actual change, and that a more effective way to have their voices heard is – or maybe they just feel out of pure desperation – to refuse to participate altogether and if a large enough amount of people do that it will result in more drastic change.
I’m not saying I think this would work at all, but that that may be the logic for some.
And I understand the points you’re making, and maybe my reaction is not so rational, but I just don’t have that anger for the people who didn’t vote because of the genocide in Gaza. I’ve gone through the process in my head and I just feel empathy and understanding with them in the face of what they’re going through. I think that’s the only thing I differ on. But I absolutely get why you and others feel differently.
I get what you’re saying. I probably agree with you that it is selfish.
I blame Evangelicals political hold in America.
My two cents. I think they believe it’s ethical, and I understand that. But it’s also short sighed and selfish. I know that sounds awful because it’s basically saying suck it up and deal with genocide. But, you have to work within the system. Harris called for a cease fire a few months ago. Trump told Netanyahu “do what you have to do.” So congrats, you voted your conscience, and while there probably weren’t enough of these people to sway the results, you wound up supporting the person who will make things worse.
So, yeah. Guess the whole Western world is proper fucked now.
Yeah I feel I have to agree. I feel like I kind of learned my lesson regarding the “lesser evil” situation early on. The first election I was able to vote in was 2016 and I approached it thinking I could cast my vote for whoever I wanted because that’s how the system worked. That ended up not being a vote for either of the two parties that actually had a chance because I wasn’t a fan of those candidates. Turns out, it’s not so clean cut and I basically wasted my vote because the US is a two party system masquerading as something else.
Abstaining from voting in a situation such as the current one in order to show how unhappy you are with the candidates is like locking yourself away as a protest and hoping someone notices. It’s not helping anything. And very well may make things worse, as we’ve seen, because chances are if you care that much you have a voice that is worth being heard. The road to progress is one taken slowly but you’re not going to get anywhere if you don’t take what you can get when you can get it.
And I do understand the statement those people are trying to make, but it’s never going to have the impact they want it to because it renders them mute.
The sad truth is that the Dems will do very little introspection, change nothing, and won’t ever form an effective resistance against the tyranny that’s coming.
They will probably shift further right, and there is a good chance they’ll move away from progressivism.
That’s what’s happening in Germany. Every time the far right gets more votes, the other parties move to the right. It’s frightening and I have no explanation or idea how to break this cycle, because we of all people should know where it ends. So it is not only happening in a two party system.
And whoever isn’t getting radicalized is pushed into apathy and doesn’t vote at all.
I saw a video from AOC where she at least made it sound like they are going to push back, but I don’t really know how much pull she has in these things, but she seems legit from my little understanding of US politics and what I’ve seen of her.
But you are probably right. When Labor got in here in the UK while it was a relief it was also rather concerning how close some of their policies are to the Tories. Now, it’s been argued that they can’t stray too far from some because they need to fix the shitfuckery the Tories left them first, but I’m not sure I believe that.
I’m already seeing people saying she was “too far left” or “too radical”. This is bullshit of course, she campaigned with the goddamn Cheneys and fully capitulated to right wing positions on things like the border wall and immigration, while remaining completely neutral on other topics.
This is terrifying to me and I think would guarantee defeats in 2026 and 2028. I hate it but this might be the thing that finally forces me to try and get involved with my local politics.
It’s similar here in my country which is currently ruled by the right wing bloc.
The Social Democrats are just turning more and more racist, and showing less and less of having any resemblance of a backbone.
I just hate them so much, lol. All of these politicians that we try to apply some standards for. They are so grossly incompetent and fucking useless that it’s just a parody at this point. And they seemingly don’t learn from it. Most likely because of that same ineptitude.
This is what is annoying me more than anything. People saying they want to leave the country, or secede, etc. It’s like, yo, the messaging of the party is terrible, they’ve alienated and insulted large swaths of people. Look inward and figure out what was done wrong this last election cycle, and try and fix it. Protect the principals you believe in now, and build up better leadership. I know the words “Fine People Hoax” is kind of a dog whistle for crazy right wingers, but for fucks sake, stop bringing it up. Obama was using that as fodder against Trump last week, and I think a very large bunch of the population knows that it’s not really even what Trump said, yet they keep using it as an attack point. It’s insulting the intelligence of everyone, including people that don’t like Trump. Come up with something better and try and win back the people that you lost rather than run away.
I have a job where I can pretty easily move to a different part of the world and I am questioning whether or not I should stick around and push for freedom here in America, or if I should move somewhere else for a better future for me and my family. If they cut social security like they want, this country is fucked.
I saw a video from AOC where she at least made it sound like they are going to push back, but I don’t really know how much pull she has in these things, but she seems legit from my little understanding of US politics and what I’ve seen of her.
AOC is a pretty polarizing figure. She’s really well liked by the progressive wing of the party but constantly used as a scapegoat by the establishment whenever things go wrong. One silver lining is that it’s extremely difficult for them to paint this as anything but a rejection of the establishment. Democratic candidates did alright in senate races in states that Harris has lost, such as Michigan and Wisconsin. And while the conservatives seem slated to win the House as well, their majority is going to be very slim. This failure is largely at the top of the ticket. But it’s going to take a larger grassroots movement than what we currently have to force them to change.
I understand the feeling totally. Every time there’s a school shooting, I want to move to Japan because I won’t fear for my kids being shot at school because neither party has any interesting in fixing it. If that’s the answer that everyone has, then the right gets to live unchecked and do whatever they want. I’ve never understood Social Security and how it’s handled. Why do we stop collecting it over $168K? Not to out myself too much, but I make more than that, and it would not change my life one bit if they continued to tax me on income over that amount. Make the cutoff fucking $10 million, or limitless, and then don’t give billionaires social security.
And if someone is in a marginalized group that feels like they are in danger, by all means, get out to safety. There’s a family friend that has multiple houses, is a straight, white, male lawyer with no kids that says he’s selling all his houses and moving to the Bahamas. I’m like, yo, I think you could probably help here more than you can moving away. That’s kind of the group of people I’m referring to in my earlier post.