I wouldn’t mind getting the link, as well. Always happy to hear someone else’s perspective, whatever it is.
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It’s still so odd the comparison between a state recognised and pushed by all the western powers and a political movement that was born from the resistance or people to having their land occupied and no one caring about them for decades (there’s like 4 or 5 western countries that recognise Palestine and a few of them only did it after this year’s genocide became unavoidable as a political subject). And in that sense, in my eyes it’s notoriously different reporting abuses against israeli women by israeli men and rape as a war crime and can’t be grouped at all in the “israel does things to keep itself accountable”. The first one goes in line to what’s happening in western countries, making life more equal for men and women. israel needs to do this because it’s a proxy of the west in the middle east, that’s how their allies have seen them since they were created, and that’s how they market themselves - the only democracy of the area and so and so. It’s what they have to do to keep that image in place. War crimes against Palestinians and other Arabs go also in that same line: the final frontier of civilisation against the savages, hence why you see so so many protesters and israel advocates asking to kill all Palestinians and raze everything to the ground because they’re savages and terrorists and the such.
And in terms of press, sayig they’re targeting journalists specifically is a huge understatement. They’re not only killing journalists and their families by linking them to hamas because everything you don’t like is hamas, but also controlling who enters or not to report to gaza, and assaulting, kidnapping, torturing journalists. That is not done only by the state, but also by civilians, although you could argue that the settlers who are illegally occupying land in gaza and the west bank are part of the state, as they are pushing the occupation and annexation policies of the state of israel.
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Far fewer countries recognize Taiwan (12) than Palestine (145) as an independent state. Even as far back as 1988, 78 countries recognized Palestine as an independent state. I’m not sure lack of recognition from the West is what makes them special. Geography and a stronger economy probably help Taiwan there but, then again, I’m pretty sure they don’t carry out mass terrorist attacks within mainland China.
Setting aside that Hamas is the elected governing representative of Gaza, left to manage the country’s internal affairs pretty much by themselves for almost 2 decades, so what? Even then, what’s the difference really? Does being a nonstate actor mean they can commit these atrocities? Where is the bright line that says “It’s okay for you to kill children and use rape and kidnapping of civilians as a weapon of war but not those people over there”. Its the actions taken. The means always informs.
And my ‘free press’ link was a concrete example of evidence to show how Israel, like the rest of the Western democracies, has a free press that tells on itself. Claiming that Israel “needs to do this because it’s a proxy of the west” deserves some backing up. How do you know Israeli journalist Anna Ahronheim isn’t motivated by the same sense of moral decency that led American journalists like Seymour Hersh to expose My Lai or Megan Twohey and Jodi Kantor to expose Harvey Weinstein? That’s the entire point of a free press; it’s not under the control of the government.
I just want to reiterate, as I already said, that the free press link is A) simply showing that Israel’s press does not cover up things done by Israel’s government for convenience and B) that story focuses on Israeli soldiers but doesn’t actually specify that all 1500+ claims are from soldiers.
Besides, even if the Jerusalem Post does, there’s always the more liberal Haaretz
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There’s an interesting similarity between taiwan and israel: both are a way for the us to influence the region, and both have arms deals with the us.
It’s also funny how you try to say that israel has free press considering that one of the main sources of criticism to the state itself comes from the complete control of information within and at the borders of a genocide zone. I wouldn’t go as far as saying that a state that prosecutes journalists, kills journalists, tortures journalists, and bombs press buildings and neutral zones within a catastrophe zone is a state where free press is highly regarded but, well, there seems to be some approach differences.
And if you’re trying to tell me that the recognised state of israel acts just like a recognised terrorist organisation, only that it doesn’t have the excuse of being born after 40 years of violent occupation and zero interest about the lives of the people that lived there, I can definitely give you that point.
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My very first post in this thread pointed out that I think Israel needs to face legitimate criticism about how it is handling both the war and its broader treatment of Palestinian people and Palestinian sovereignty. I am of the opinion that legitimacy comes from a fair description. For the record, I absolutely am not saying the legitimate state of Israel acts just like a recognized terrorist organization. I am absolutely saying that the legitimate state of Israel acts in a manner that is many levels morally and ethically superior to a recognized terrorist organization.
You may be right about Israel and the free press. I only know the pudding that I see and it looks like Israel allows journalists to criticize Israel and its government. Of course, many journalists have been killed and that is definitely something that needs legitimate criticism. But, again, Hamas knowingly kidnaps and holds journalists hostage while Israel kills them with missile strikes when they’re embedded in the chaos of Gaza. Yes, there are claims that Israel is targeting journalists and if there was legitimate criticism of Israel, maybe we could force them to hold those IDF people accountable.
Now, one of the things that decades of violence has wrought is a hardline Likud government in power that has done things like shut down Al-Jazeera’s Israeli office, an act which should be condemned. And it would be a much more impactful condemnation if anyone had ever acknowledged that Israel allowed an openly critical media organization to operate out of their country until May 2024.
Because all it looks like otherwise is “Israel is bad first, and what they did comes second”. I’m just saying, is all.
Anyway, I’ve think I’ve said my piece. Hope you have a good day and good gaming to you.
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Well, the most moral army in the world still can’t figure out how to not bomb children and civilians, like the new school bombing that killed over 100 people in Gaza last Monday, or to differentiate Gaza from the West Bank. No wonder the Hamas popularity in the West Bank is raising, that’s what decades of unaccounted occupation and genocide often do. Yes, violence births violence. Hamas was “founded” 40 years after the start of the conflict and 20ish years after the wars and the first large occupation. Again, completely unaccounted because they were useful to stop communism during the cold war. Not all violences are equal, though, there are some that have been legitimated socially, such as tyrannicide, or the right to revolt.
And the differences between a recognised state and a non-recognised terrorist institution? For starters, that a state should be bound to the conventions and treaties they sign, as recognised states are almost always the ones that sign and ratify them, and apparently, israel has signed and ratified quite a lot. Not that it matters though, there’s not much the internatinal community can do other than take them to ICJ and the like (and they already ruled israel is violating quite a few conventions they signed, including the apartheid one). But then again, as the world doesn’t want wars, what they often do is economically sanction the countries that are violating international law. Which is oddly not the case, neither the usual ostracism for other human rights violating countries, like the south african apartheid, what pinochet did in chile, or even now, russia and belarus who even got banned from the olympics while israeli soldiers who signed bombs and bullets to kill people in gaza got to represent the country in paris a few days ago.
Anyhow, yeah, I agree there’s not much more to say in here so I’ll probably leave it here. If anyone else wants to talk more about the subject, feel free to send me a DM or anything, I’ll be happy to.
Israel strike on Gaza school building kills more than 70, hospital head says (bbc.com)
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On an easier subject (?), I had a quick skimming through the project 2025 handbook, more closely focussing on their effects on Latinoamérica, and the thing is batshit crazy. So, two questions: 1) how likely is trump to win?, and 2) how likely is that, if trump wins, the core of project 2025 gets done?
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Trump winning: It’s really hard to say. There are no more blowouts in American elections. To win a presidency, you don’t have to win votes, you have to win states. That is, voters in a state vote for a president and whoever in that state gets the most votes get all of that state’s votes. Of the 50 states, probably more than 40 are already decided. Kamala is winning my state (Maryland), New York and the rest of the northeast, California, Oregon, etc. Trump is winning Texas, Alabama, Nebraska, etc. There are probably 7 or 8 states who could swing one way or another and those states will decide who wins. And in those states, most voters know who they’re voting for already so that means somewhere around 100,000 voters in each state might be the difference between Kamala or Trump winning that state. Which means, in a country of 330 million people, less than a million people will be responsible for deciding who the next president is. What issue of the day (crime, economy, abortion, etc.) matters to those people and who they think is better at fixing it will no doubt be the difference.
So, Trump absolutely could win. Personally, I’m convinced that his popularity is overhyped. He won in 2016 against one of the most unpopular politicians in recent American history who had long been accused of corruption and, just before the election, a letter was released by the FBI accusing her of further corruption. Even then, Trump managed to barely squeak by in the slimmest of victories. So, I’m optimistic that he won’t win but understand that he absolutely could.
Project 2025: I’m convinced Trump doesn’t care that much about conservatism. I’m sure he has some vague notion about how the country was better back when (with some justification, like when higher union representation meant much better wage equality between workers and executives) and has a big enough ego that he thinks he can fix it. But he’s not a policy person. He’s an ego, IMO.
What he is, though, is somehow who is happy to work with conservative policy people. He appointed plenty of judges, including Supreme Court Justices, that the extremely conservative Heritage Foundation told him to appoint. He gathered conservative people around his cabinet to implement their own ideas. He even made sure to place ideologues to administrative positions within Executive Branch departments that changed how different agencies carried out their work. If he wins, he’ll definitely do that again and those people will certainly try to implement some Project 2025 ideas.
One thing about Trump is that his ego pushed away and burned bridges with some of those policy people, and more than once his administration got in it’s own way when it tried to implement some conservative action due to a focus on ideologies over political acumen and legal knowledge. So, even if he wins, they may shoot themselves in the foot trying to implement it all.
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- Pretty likely given how things are going. It feels like the American left squanders every chance it gets, and the right does anything and everything at any moment it can to strengthen its stranglehold on the national conversation, suppressing voter rights, gerrymandering, so on and so forth. 2) Absolutely likely. Trump is almost irrelevant to this. If the right has the power, they’ll do whatever they want, with nothing standing in their way.
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Thanks @Vakil @WerqKween. From what I gather, it might he a hit or miss if 2025 policies get done. However, I believe the foreign affairs re: Latinoamérica would be the less likely to be disputed if he gets elected, considering that it’s hardly a subject other than the negative views people over there have about immigrants from our side of the world. The ones I consider harmful the most are by far focussing aid (?) via faith-based organisations, and lobbying governments to improve us companies’ competitivity (say, lowering taxes, regulations and laws to push and make easier natural resource extraction, etc.). And, well, obviously, the push on oil and climate change denialism.
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2% of Gaza population has been confirmedly killed since October. This only counts recovered bodies, so the number could go way higher. 85% of the Gaza population has been forcibly displaced.
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And now it’s the West Bank what’s being targeted by Israel expansionist attempts. This definitely must have been to destroy Hamas, with the only detail that Hamas is not present there, so now it’s to deal with the Iranian-backed insurgency, while the israeli government asks for the West Bank to be a new Gaza, as it’s a war and they have to win it. By now, they are attempting to siege hospitals in a few prominent cities in the north of the West Bank.
That’s what happens when you let a country do what it pleases with no consequences, the barrier of what’s acceptable moves over and over again.
Israel launches large-scale West Bank raid as minister calls for Gaza-style operation | CNN
Israel military launches major West Bank operation (bbc.com)
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Not to mention Israel’s “pre-emptive” strikes on Lebanon.
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So it looks like Israel just killed 10 people (including a little girl) in Lebanon and injured thousands with some pager bombs. I guess some are saying this was a strike on Hezbollah but obviously the 10 year old girl wasn’t in Hezbollah. This is why Israel seriously needs some legitimate criticism. One thing if Trump wins is that even the mild pressure that Biden has applied will be gone. And Israel will feel emboldened to do more insane things like this until one side or the other is just too destroyed to keep fighting.
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Heard there was an ex-CIA/FBI director who called the pager thing “a terrorist attack”. Weird such a dissenting voice coming the US on this matter.
With how the events have unwinded themselves, there’s no way of convincing me this is a war for territory and nothing else.
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Gaza, West Bank, Lebanon and Yemen, all being bombed by Israel simultaneously.
I don’t claim to understand this whole Gaza thing at all. However, one thing I’ve seen a lot is people who I would have said are intelligent saying that people should not vote for Harris due to the Democrats apparently arming the war. Case in point, this post with a musician whom I was quite a fan of (apologies in advance for the screenshots)
My comment, and her reply, is as follows
As I said, I don’t claim to understand the details, but not voting for Harris who might actually listen VS Trump getting in (which looks likely, FFS) just seems daft.
So please, I am genuinely asking, explain to me what I’m missing.
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Just putting in my two cents. I can absolutely understand not being able to vote for the “lesser evil” when the lesser evil in this case is one that’s still willing to seemingly allow and help continue the genocide of a people.
I understand what you’re saying that Trump is obviously much worse, just saying that I also understand the people refusing to vote for the Democrats as their way of trying to make themselves heard. And you could definitely argue if thats the best way or not, but I don’t know if I could personally morally fault anyone for that.
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Sorry, but I don’t see how not voting for a “lesser evil” which actively allows a much bigger evil to take charge is in any way clever, good or sensible.
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