Hi, for the top 250 I was wondering if it would be possible to remove collections of games that are already on the top 250. In particular:
-Metal Gear Solid HD Collection (all 3 games in it are on the top 250)
-The Ico & Shadow of the Colossus Collection (Shadow of the Colossus is on the top 250, Ico doesn’t have a high enough rating)
-Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney Trilogy (all 3 games in it are on the top 250)
I just want as many distinct games as possible to be represented on the top 250.
You’re very right here. If a game has a genre of “Compilation” that comes from Giant Bomb, then it doesn’t get included in the top 250 games calculation. Those 3 games didn’t have that genre tagged, so I went ahead and added that tag to them. They won’t be there next time the top 250 is calculated. Let me know if you see anymore like that.
I agree with you regarding DLC/expansion packs. However taking out alternate versions of games opens up a whole new can of worms. For example, Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate is an alternate version of Monster Hunter 4, but disallowing it from the top 250 would mean that neither Monster Hunter 4 or Ultimate are represented. The solution to this would be to only allow the highest rated version of a game to be allowed on the top 250, but it seems difficult and impractical to implement this.
Going even further, it is surprisingly hard to define what exactly makes a game a different version of another game. For example, despite the gameplay being mostly unchanged, I’m sure most people agree that Resident Evil 1 and the Resident Evil 1 Remake should by considered separate games. However, why is this? Is there a threshold for the amount of new content or updated graphics that a game has to have in order to be considered separate from a game that it’s based on? It seems some people would consider games like Wind Waker/Wind Waker HD and Pokemon Red/FireRed completely separate while others would not, which makes me think deciding which games are different versions of each other is too subjective to do for an official top 250.
I’m sure most people agree that Resident Evil 1 and the Resident Evil 1 Remake should by considered separate games. However, why is this? Is there a threshold for the amount of new content or updated graphics that a game has to have in order to be considered separate from a game that it’s based on?
The RE HD Remake (or REmake) is more than just a new coat of paint. It is actually fundamentally altered. They reorganized many of the elements of the game and changed things like how zombies behave in certain places, to disrupt any expectations generated by the original game. It’s both a remake and a remix. The two versions are different enough that the experience of playing one if different from playing the other. I think that warrants the inclusion of both.
I think any list needs a consistent rubric. Inclusion and exclusion can be based on that rubric. Wind Waker HD is essentially the same game as Wind Waker, minus some basic mechanical aspects that didn’t translate post GCN (like GBA integration). I think it’s fair to group Wind Waker and Wind Waker HD because the experiences are largely the same save for enhanced graphical upgrades. I think if a remake fundamentally alters the experience of a game (REmake, REmake 2, REmake 3, FFVII Remake, etc) it should be considered a separate title. If it is a graphical update (Wind Waker HD, Twilight Princess HD, The Last of Us Remaster, etc.) it should be grouped with the original. It might come down to a basic distinction between remaster and remake. If it is remastered and updated for contemporary systems with an experience that closely mirrors the original, perhaps it is safe to group with the original. If it is a remake that fundamentally creates a new experience, it should be treated as a separate game.
On the other hand, there will be games that admittedly problematize this simply dichotomy. And there is the fact that there is no easy way to automate something like this. So it will always come down to a subjective debate on how to treat unique outliers and games that don’t easily fit that rubric.
FWIW, I’d even argue that some of the expansions should stay. Something like BG2 Throne of Bhaal seems to offer enough value on its own that I feel like it needs to be rated separately from BG2 Shadows of Amn.
Yeah, expansions should stay. TOB is bigger than quite a number of full-length games. Same goes for Shiving Isles and Heart of the Swarm.
The things that should be removed from the top 250:
- 3D/HD re-releases
- Witcher 3
I don’t want expansions and dlc to be removed because of lack of quality or lack of content. I don’t think that the “TOP 250 GAMES” is the right place for them because they are not GAMES.
I needed to take a look what differences between Remakes and Remasters are. Remakes are fine and in my opinion Remasters have to go because they are just the original games in higher resolution and added dlc.
That’s not true. Some are standalone expansions that are sold separately. Some are expansions that are essentially new games. The only overlap between BG2 and TOB is Watcher’s Keep. You can even play TOB without playing the main game. It’d be hard to draw a line. Hitman 2 is just more content in a slightly updated engine too.
Well, all expansions are sold seperately at release to generate more cash of a sucessful game. Can you play TOB without installing BG2?
That’s why I prefer to keep it simple. Does the game require the base game? Then it is a expansion/dlc.
I thought Grouvee already started to differentiate.
Yes, this is the idea. In reality, I’m
Yes, this is the way it’s supposed to be. That’s the way Giant Bomb supposedly handles it. In reality, I’m sure there are a lot of situations where they are in here incorrectly. I do think that items that have the DLC checkbox on the backend should not be included in this list. Standalone DLC, which should have its own entry in the database, can be on this list.
The remaster/remake thing is also handled kind of poorly on Giant Bomb’s end. Theoretically, a remaster shouldn’t get its own entry, and it wouldn’t show up on this list. A remake should get its own entry, and should be perfectly eligible for this list.
I will try and add in the DLC filtering this week sometime. We’ll see what the list looks like after that.
OK, DLC has been removed from the list. I think it looks pretty clean now to be honest. The Zelda remake/remasters on there are maybe a little gray, but I think they’re OK.
Maybe now I’ll get around to redoing the page and letting people see what games are actually on their shelves on this page now
Great. Is the list I see now final or does it refresh at some point today?
I refreshed it manually, so it is the final list.
Don’t be sorry! I will get these edited. They need to be marked as DLC correctly. Most of these games are older than the DLC era, so I don’t think giant Bomb really had support in their system for dlc at the time.
Keep pointing out the data inconsistencies as you see them!