About that Ion Fury thing

Continued discussion from: https://www.grouvee.com/status/25936

Summary of events posted on Resetera (I checked the messages and can confirm this is all true)

  • We have two people in that Discord that are patiently trying to educate this dev about trans issues
  • They try to explain gender dysphoria, how transitioning works, puberty blockers, etc., and post resources and links.
  • Meanwhile you have this horrible bigot (not the dev) peddling transphobic bullshit and myths about suicide rates, and even saying trans kids should be “beaten into being rational” and linking to far-right resources.
  • The dev not only ignores the bigot posting that gross shit and never calls them out…
  • The dev is not even remotely receptive to what the other two are saying;
  • The dev continues to post ridiculous, debunked myths, such as “laws forcing kids to go through surgery”, puberty blockers causing infertility and even making your bits disappear (??? how fucking stupid is this guy), etc.
  • The dev constantly posts disingenuous nonsense like "I’m not an expert but ", “I don’t know anything but I saw a doctor say this once”
  • One of the two patient Discord member points out, “Yeah well we had a doctor saying vaccines cause autism so…”
  • The dev basically says “sure you never know” in response to that (!)
  • The dev then concludes, despite being given overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that that trans teenagers must be killing themselves because they transitioned too early.

Even tl;dr shorter summary:

  • The dev is transphobic
  • The dev ignores all information and resources that could educate him;
  • The dev continues being transphobic and also posted anti-vaxx talking points as a bonus.

And then you have people saying we should take the time to educate these bigots and not be too mean to them. Well, here you go folks, those are the results.

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Generally agree with most stuff and the comments other people in that thread made. I wanted to give the dev the benefit of the doubt as evidenced by my first comment but as I read further it’s pretty clear the dev is arguing in bad faith and is not open to any kind of rational discourse. He basically ignored anything that he didn’t agree with. Despite resetera’s extreme reaction, people on discord were trying to explain to the dev these things in a polite manner so it’s really sad to see him basically ignore everything said and continue arguing in bad faith and remain narrow-minded in his easily debunkable views.

linking to far-right resources

Clowns like these annoy me to no end, giving a bad name to anything right-wing and fueling the flames of the us vs them mentality.

The dev continues being transphobic and also posted anti-vaxx talking points as a bonus

This is almost comedic as if taken from a made up story, the only thing missing is him being a flat-earther. Pardon my loaded language again but what a clown the dev turned out to be.

And then you have people saying we should take the time to educate these bigots and not be too mean to them.

I’d still stand by this though, the only way to resolve this issue is via education, however difficult it is. You can’t really punish people for having an opinion, however horrible it may be.


So, if given the chance, you wouldn’t want to talk to this dev to have him clarify his position?

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I’m just not sure there’s masses to clarify. I sympathise they just wanted to ‘create something good’ and don’t necessarily have any active hatred of anyone. As they were saying dismissively to trans people on the discord, ‘we don’t care so long as you like the game.’ They just have their offensive views on the issues. That’s not a crime, but they will be judged in the market for it - both ways. We probably disagree on most things with people we walk past on the street and don’t bat an eyelid. There are probably thousands of silent devs who hold these kind of views and we buy the games they contribute to. It’s the fact its in public that makes the difference to people.

Whilst you can definitely look past it and buy Ion Fury (after all it doesn’t infect the game itself - the whole ‘TRANShumanist cult is the bad guy’ criticism is nonsense), they’re not owed your purchase. I don’t see anything wrong with people individually using their non-purchase as their one means of recourse. I don’t think people should be judged for buying the game. I don’t think the devs should be harassed. I don’t think pirating the game makes any sense whatsoever. Correcting on the points and individual purchasing decisions is enough.

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I thought about the whole Ion Fury controversy again after seeing the Apex Legends fallout. Apex Legends forum furious as devs call players ‘ass-hats’ and ‘freeloaders’ - Polygon

Not to overly put people in boxes, but it’s interesting that gamers who likely turn a blind eye to the Ion Fury controversy will cry foul over the Apex legends controversy and vice versa! Fundamentally, they’re both about the developer-player relationship and perceiving someone is under attack. What should a dev put out there? How much personal visibility should they allow themselves and to what degree should they bite their tongues? How much does the player opinion of devs really matter? The easiest thing to do is avoid any personal social media and keep it all strictly professional. That’s obviously a bitter pill to swallow for many.

No. They had their chance to do that already and came out as even more transphobic and hateful.

In response to your first comment, I get where you’re coming from. It’s clear that trans issues mean more to you than they do to me. We all have to make our own judgments regarding which products we buy. The original poster in that Resetera thread expressed a desire to get the dev fired, and that’s unacceptable, childish behavior to me, but you’ve made it clear that you’re not interested in that. Yours is a much more measured, thoughtful position, which I can only respect.

Regarding the Apex Legends story, that is indeed an interesting comparison. I think the difference is that the Apex devs seem to be pointedly complaining about individuals, and the Ion dev was expressing a belief. Regardless, I think you’re absolutely right about keeping things “strictly professional.” I think the devs in both cases made mistakes and behaved unprofessionally.


Could you show me some screenshots or quotes, if you don’t mind? I looked through the Resetera thread, but I didn’t see what you were referring to, exactly.

Their discord server is public. You can look by yourself.

Just a note on the “similarity” between the situation that sparked the discussion and the Apex one: the only thing they have in common is some kind of interaction between some devs and some people.

Not gonna go into the first one, as i’m not equipped to say anything useful, but in Respawn case the only problem is them trying to engage the community in this day and age, and being human. The rest is just reddit being the horrible sad echo chamber it always is and Polygon cherry picking things (as usual) in order to stoke the flames of controversy (as usual, even when one does not exist). Case in point, if you go look at the entire history of comments from that dev (that probably got in part deleted after all this, tho) you can see the majority of his answers were pretty direct but laid back; comparing that to the overwhelming (and, sadly, standard these days) number of insults, death threats and bullshit spewed from the community…

From a commercial/corporate standpoint, devs of moderately sized teams (i get why indie devs needs to engage the community and generate buzz) should simply go back to no communication, this is the game, nanananana we’re not listening. Look at Rockstar. Going their way, caring about no comment, still making loads of money (despite all the people crying foul about their working ethos, because they STILL END UP BUYING THE GAME).

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And there it is…

"Members of Voidpoint’s Ion Fury team have made sexist and transphobic comments, and included homophobic language in Ion Fury. We recognize these statements are insensitive, unacceptable, and counterproductive to causes of equality. We unequivocally apologize both for these comments and language as well as for any pain they have caused the gaming community, particularly women and members of the LGBTQ community. We take full responsibility for any damage that has been done to the relationships we’ve worked so hard to build.

“Moving forward, Voidpoint will institute a zero-tolerance policy for this type of language and all employees and contractors will undergo mandatory sensitivity training. As part of our efforts to contribute to the work that must be done to further support these communities, we are donating $10,000 from Ion Fury’s release day proceeds to The Trevor Project. We are also patching Ion Fury ASAP to remove all unacceptable language.”

This is very good. :slight_smile:


Well, gotta be honest, I find that pretty inconsiderate since you brought it up. But alright.

I guess we’re just different people, because I don’t find that “very good” at all. I find it weird and slightly Orwellian. I don’t want to live in a world where people are punished for saying stupid things.

I think I’ve said all I have to say on this. Godspeed, everyone.

Where’s any mention of punishment, by the by? A zero tolerance policy from here on out seems fine to me. Why are these topics even being addressed on an official game forum? Needlessly hurting people.

Orwellian is always a curious term when applied to companies rather than governments. If you don’t want someone on your payroll to offend your customers, isn’t recourse your prerogative? Ironically, propaganda, misinformation and doublethink on trans issues are the things we want tackled here!

I know we’ve had two different topics of debate now! Hope it’s felt reasonably good-natured. We can always stop if its exhausting, though. :smiley:

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The gaming community is hopelessly divided after all.

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t :slight_smile:.

See also: Overwatch.

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I’ll ruin my dramatic exit by commenting again, lol.

Just to clarify: it’s the sensitivity training, predicated on one having the wrong opinions, that I would call slightly Orwellian. There’s a bit of thoughtcrime in there, I think.

And yes–the conversation has certainly felt good-natured. No worries there. Although it is exhausting, as I said elsewhere. Although I do love talking about this sort of thing, I don’t like doing it through text, and frankly, it’s just not how I’d like to spend my time on this forum. Regardless, thanks for a pleasant conversation.

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I suppose it depends if you think of it as education or not. A flat-earther will consider all education we’d consider very standard ‘Orwellian.’ Someone who insists there are only the two sexes will no doubt think the same of this training. In the end, there’s evidence and facts at hand!

The ‘crime,’ of course, wasn’t that they thought it, but that they expressed it on their official forum and compromised their employer. Not a crime, but an annoyance to the company no doubt!

And there it is…

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